2 weeks Ago By owedtojoy
Just a week on from a mass shooting in Buffalo, NY, by a believer in the "Great Replacement Theory", an American right-wing conference is taking place in Budapest, Hungary (May 19th & 20th), perhaps a little more muted than it might be otherwise. CPAC is the American Conservative Political Action Committee, an American organisation of elite right-wing ideologues. Orbán and US right to bond at Cpac in Hungary over ‘great replacement’ ideology American far right has long embraced Hungary’s prime minister, who speaks of Europe’s ‘suicidal’ immigration policies www.
theguardian.com “I see the great European population exchange as a suicidal attempt to replace the lack of European, Christian children with adults from other civilizations – migrants,” Orbán declared in a speech to mark the start of his fourth term in office . Echoing another popular theme on the American right, he argued that another form of cultural suicide was “gender madness”, a reference to the spread of LGBTQ+ rights in the west.
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The Great Replacement Theory is a pod people theory (see the film Invasion of the Body Snatchers) that white voters are to be replaced by super-breeding immigrants, with the process engineered by a sinister elite (often Jews) to subvert the dominance of the Christian white race. There is a bit more going on here of course. Orban's "illiberal democracy" is seen by many right-wing ideologues of the US right as a suitable model for a new right-wing dominated undemocratic USA, with Washington as a Vienna Budapest-on-the-Potomac - state dominated media (or owned by state-friendly oligarchs), strict immigration laws, rigid state-controlled justice system, unitary leadership by a "strongman" and his loyal lieutenants, restrictive laws against the LGBTQ community and women's rights to choice in reproduction.
ROD DREHER [US right-wing commentator]: Right now, the political leader of the conservative resistance in the West is the prime minister of a small central European countries that most Americans never even think about. Click to expand..
. (Many would reply that the record of "small central European countries" in providing positive world leadership is not good.) What CPAC's embrace of Viktor Orban says about the state of U.
S. politics In an archive edition of On Point: As American conservatives meet for their conference in Budapest, we'll learn more about why they're gathering to hear Viktor Orban. www.
wbur.org Orban does come with baggage. It would be accurate to desribe him as a bargain-basement Vladimir Putin, with no nukes.
While Hungary is in NATO, and the EU, Orban comes across as a recalcitrant member of both, unashamedly reaching out to both Putin and Xi Jinping, when it suits his agenda. He has publicly sparred with Volodymyr Zelensky over Ukraine's Hungarian minority, a residue of the pre-1914 Austro-Hungarian Empire. But of course, the American right also contains a strong pro-Putin faction, that is gaining more attention.
And one of its leaders is also a loud proponent of Great Replacement Theory, who will also be in Vienna. Tucker Carlson, Fierce NATO Critic, To Speak at 'CPAC Hungary' With Orbán As the war rages on in Ukraine and Finland and Sweden elect to join NATO, CPAC is to be held in Europe for the first time. www.
newsweek.com owedtojoy said: Just a week on from a mass shooting in Buffalo, NY, by a believer in the "Great Replacement Theory", an American right-wing conference is taking place in Budapest, Hungary (May 19th & 20th), perhaps a little more muted than it might be otherwise. CPAC is the American Conservative Political Action Committee, an American organisation of elite right-wing ideologues.
Orbán and US right to bond at Cpac in Hungary over ‘great replacement’ ideology American far right has long embraced Hungary’s prime minister, who speaks of Europe’s ‘suicidal’ immigration policies www.theguardian.com The Great Replacement Theory is a pod people theory (see the film Invasion of the Body Snatchers) that white voters are to be replaced by super-breeding immigrants, with the process engineered by a sinister elite (often Jews) to subvert the dominance of the Christian white race.
There is a bit more going on here of course. Orban's "illiberal democracy" is seen by many right-wing ideologues of the US right as a suitable model for a new right-wing dominated undemocratic USA, with Washington as a Vienna-on-the-Potomac - state dominated media (or owned by state-friendly oligarchs), strict immigration laws, rigid state-controlled justice system, unitary leadership by a "strongman" and his loyal lieutenants, restrictive laws against the LGBTQ community and women's rights to choice in reproduction. (Many would reply that the record of "small central European countries" in providing positive world leadership is not good.
) What CPAC's embrace of Viktor Orban says about the state of U.S. politics In an archive edition of On Point: As American conservatives meet for their conference in Budapest, we'll learn more about why they're gathering to hear Viktor Orban.
www.wbur.org Orban does come with baggage.
It would be accurate to desribe him as a bargain-basement Vladimir Putin, with no nukes. While Hungary is in NATO, and the EU, Orban comes across as a recalcitrant member of both, unashamedly reaching out to both Putin and Xi Jinping, when it suits his agenda. He has publicly sparred with Volodymyr Zelensky over Ukraine's Hungarian minority, a residue of the pre-1914 Austro-Hungarian Empire.
But of course, the American right also contains a strong pro-Putin faction, that is gaining more attention. And one of its leaders is also a loud proponent of Great Replacement Theory, who will also be in Vienna. Tucker Carlson, Fierce NATO Critic, To Speak at 'CPAC Hungary' With Orbán As the war rages on in Ukraine and Finland and Sweden elect to join NATO, CPAC is to be held in Europe for the first time.
www.newsweek.com Click to expand.
.. linking a known mentally ill teenager to orban and tucker Carlson is huge stretch of the imagination.
I am not part of the right of any country but unlike you I have heard of George Soros and his interference in Irelands private political/social policy and his acknowledged 227 "" MEP friends "" who regulate your and my life --does tucker or victor own 227 friends with his spending of an admitted astonishing 18Billion buying/owing "friends "" . you refer to the right -- what angle are you from please tell us and your post is not an intellectual enquiry it is more of a personal political statement which excluded what should not be excluded . The last few paragraphs of the Guardian article are very telling: Richard Kraemer, a American Republican and analyst at the European Values Centre for Security Policy (EVCSP) in Prague, said he was concerned about the security implications of CPAC’s decision to hold its conference in Budapest which, after diplomatic expulsions in the rest of Europe following the Ukraine invasion, is widely seen as the most important outpost for Russian intelligence on the continent.
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“The are all these kinds of avenues whereby they’re able to put agents of influence in there and in front of Americans, who are basically low-hanging fruit that have decided to get even closer to the ground by showing up in Budapest,” Kraemer added. “What’s particularly disconcerting to me about this is that CPAC has basically decided that the cultural wars being fought right now by American conservatives are more important than America’s national security .” Click to expand.
.. The Trumpian wing of the Republican party and the American far right in general have been so successful at undermining all trust in domestic and international US-built institutions - federal govt, the electoral system, Supreme court, UN, NATO - that the statement in bold is met by a shrug rather than the "what the hell is going on" outrage it would have sparked pre-2000.
ODD ONE said: linking a known mentally ill teenager to orban and tucker Carlson is huge stretch of the imagination. I am not part of the right of any country but unlike you I have heard of George Soros and his interference in Irelands private political/social policy and his acknowledged 227 "" MEP friends "" who regulate your and my life --does tucker or victor own 227 friends with his spending of an admitted astonishing 18Billion buying/owing "friends "" . you refer to the right -- what angle are you from please tell us and your post is not an intellectual enquiry it is more of a personal political statement which excluded what should not be excluded .
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The link between Tucker Carlson and the Buffalo shooter is not a huge stretch. Carlson runs the most popular talk show on US right-wing TV, the shooter referenced "replacement" in his online statements. Such ideas are the currency of the US right.
farnaby said: The last few paragraphs of the Guardian article are very telling: The Trumpian wing of the Republican party and the American far right in general have been so successful at undermining all trust in domestic and international US-built institutions - federal govt, the electoral system, Supreme court, UN, NATO - that the statement in bold is met by a shrug rather than the "what the hell is going on" outrage it would have sparked pre-2000. Click to expand..
. if a crow shits on you it is surely a Russian crow . the rain comes from Russia --the inflation is caused by Putin --the expensive diesel is caused by Russia all the increases in prices that rob us are caused by Russia --it was covid inflation just the other day and just before that it was Brexit and other numerous events and decimalisation was a huge one counting in 10s caused things to double in cost from counting in 12s .
the guardian is propaganda and they have been caught time and time again . ODD ONE said: if a crow shits on you it is surely a Russian crow . the rain comes from Russia --the inflation is caused by Putin --the expensive diesel is caused by Russia all the increases in prices that rob us are caused by Russia --it was covid inflation just the other day and just before that it was Brexit and other numerous events and decimalisation was a huge one counting in 10s caused things to double in cost from counting in 12s .
the guardian is propaganda and they have been caught time and time again . Click to expand..
. I don't see a point in being anti-authoritarianism as such because for one thing authoritarianism can serve extremely ends and for two things circumstances differ so that authoritarianism can be necessary and even good in one situation while as it would be equally unnecessary and bad in other things. However looking at things objectively the West is becoming increasingly authoritarian and intolerant of dissent and this was a trend but really accelerated after the Neo-Liberal centre got totally freaked out by Trump's election and Biden's victory has not slowed this down at all.
The problem is that the Neo-Liberal centre lives in a state of self-deception in which it's partisans sincerely believe that they cannot be authoritarian. Than you have many on both the Right and the Left who are against this authoritarianism when it effects their "side" but not when it effects "themuns". People will put forward Douglas Murray for example as being someone strongly in favour of "Free Speech" when actually he approves of extremely repressive measures against groups he does not like whether orthodox Muslims as opposed to the Takferi Jihadists and Hard Leftists.
You also had Kommunist on here who was often an extremely brilliant and informative poster who I was genuinely sad to see leave us but who was a fan of Mark Malone who wants to censor the likes of Gemma O'Dortherty and the National Party, but a pound to a penny Mark Malone would also be in favour of censoring dissent from the official narratives on the Ukraine among other things that would effect the genuine Left. So between all this the Neo-Liberal centre has it's enemies on both the Right and the Left playing into it's increasingly authoritarian hands. The idea that the Russians who lost the Cold War primarily because they were crap at propaganda are some bunch of inscrutable as they are sinister Asiatic master minds of psychological manipulation weaving various spells to lead the good natured Occident into the abyss besides being the height of racism is silly- and yet many seemingly educated and intelligent people actually believe it.
ODD ONE said: if a crow shits on you it is surely a Russian crow . the rain comes from Russia --the inflation is caused by Putin --the expensive diesel is caused by Russia all the increases in prices that rob us are caused by Russia --it was covid inflation just the other day and just before that it was Brexit and other numerous events and decimalisation was a huge one counting in 10s caused things to double in cost from counting in 12s . the guardian is propaganda and they have been caught time and time again .
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I don't blame Russia for any of those things. But I do believe that its foreign policy is malign and underhand, designed to weaken other nations to make its many internal weaknesses less glaring. I love Russian music and literature - but one of the reasons they are so great is that they emerge out of horror, misery and turmoil.
And it is clear they see the conspiracy-obsessed right as a great vehicle to weaken western republican and democratic (lower case) institutions. owedtojoy said: ..
. with Washington as a Vienna-on-the-Potomac - state dominated media Click to expand..
. What have you got against Vienna? You know that's in Austria right? farnaby said: The last few paragraphs of the Guardian article are very telling: The Trumpian wing of the Republican party and the American far right in general have been so successful at undermining all trust in domestic and international US-built institutions - federal govt, the electoral system, Supreme court, UN, NATO - that the statement in bold is met by a shrug rather than the "what the hell is going on" outrage it would have sparked pre-2000. Click to expand.
.. Sometimes, it is like the rush of the Gadarene Swine into autocracy.
Kim Scheppele is a Princeton Professor of International Affairs. This is from NPR. SCHEPPELE: What it tells us about the American Republican Party is that it realizes it's not alone - that there are international models, that they can learn from these.
LIASSON: And right now, says Scheppele, Viktor Orban is showing the way. Click to expand..
. SCHEPPELE: What Orban has really perfected is how to keep reelecting leaders whose aspirations are absolutely not to maintain a democracy, but rather the opposite - right? - to lock in power forever to a small group of people. When you raise that question now in the United States, people don't automatically say that's a bad idea.
LIASSON: What Orban is doing is not only not a bad idea to conservative thought leaders like Rod Dreher, it's an existential necessity. Click to expand..
. Republicans have dreamed of the "permanent Republican majority" (even a fake one) since the 1990s. I would date it to Newt Gingrich's days as Speaker.
Now, thanks to a bit of vote suppression, a bit of gerrymandering, a lot of media manipulation, some court-packing, election-stealing like 2020 and some violence like1/6, they are approaching that goal. By definition, such an America is undemocratic and illiberal. Looking at the United States, the left want open borders as they expect more far left voters out the far side to help win elections, It would be hugely entertaining if it led to the first Junta-esque government , I get the impression South Americans arent woke, probably left some shitty run socialist country and wont want a repeat in a country they have fled too.
silverharp said: Looking at the United States, the left want open borders as they expect more far left voters out the far side to help win elections, It would be hugely entertaining if it led to the first Junta-esque government , I get the impression South Americans arent woke, probably left some shitty run socialist country and wont want a repeat in a country they have fled too. Click to expand..
. You're exposing the flaw in your own argument there. Many immigrant groups switch political allegiance from the side that let them in to the side that reflects their more conservative or religiously-influenced views on how society should be run.
farnaby said: You're exposing the flaw in your own argument there. Many immigrant groups switch political allegiance from the side that let them in to the side that reflects their more conservative or religiously-influenced views on how society should be run. Click to expand.
.. Im not sure what you mean by flaw?, Im pointing out the flaw in left thinking that they might not get what they expect ie increasing numbers of compliant left wing voters that will vote for their notions unthinkably.
I see the great american middle ground - sensible and hospitable, but nobody's fool - as having 2 shrill camps on its right and left, that most can see for what they are. Shrill. And camp.
recedite said: What have you got against Vienna? You know that's in Austria right? Click to expand...
Oh dear . . .
Imagination on a day off, is it? owedtojoy said: The link between Tucker Carlson and the Buffalo shooter is not a huge stretch. Click to expand..
. It certainly isn't, but Li'l Tucker is peddling furiously in his latest shows to put as much clear water between what he has spent the past year selling to his audience and the actual manifestation of his disgusting bile in the form of some punk — too young to buy beer but not too young to get a semiautomatic — mowing down people he views as Carlson's subject matter. All of this filth the American right sprays like slurry over the internet, with more than a little help from TV trash like Carlson and Ingraham, doesn't dissipate and sail off harmlessly into the stratosphere.
It has real consequences, just one of which is poisoning receptive minds too young or too stupid to recognise it for what it is. America’s two party system tends to exacerbate tribalism. There’s no penalty, in the form of political alternatives, for ignoring the middle.
recedite said: What have you got against Vienna? You know that's in Austria right? Click to expand...
It means nothing to me. Golah veNekhar said: I don't see a point in being anti-authoritarianism as such because for one thing authoritarianism can serve extremely ends and for two things circumstances differ so that authoritarianism can be necessary and even good in one situation while as it would be equally unnecessary and bad in other things. However looking at things objectively the West is becoming increasingly authoritarian and intolerant of dissent and this was a trend but really accelerated after the Neo-Liberal centre got totally freaked out by Trump's election and Biden's victory has not slowed this down at all.
The problem is that the Neo-Liberal centre lives in a state of self-deception in which it's partisans sincerely believe that they cannot be authoritarian. Than you have many on both the Right and the Left who are against this authoritarianism when it effects their "side" but not when it effects "themuns". People will put forward Douglas Murray for example as being someone strongly in favour of "Free Speech" when actually he approves of extremely repressive measures against groups he does not like whether orthodox Muslims as opposed to the Takferi Jihadists and Hard Leftists.
You also had Kommunist on here who was often an extremely brilliant and informative poster who I was genuinely sad to see leave us but who was a fan of Mark Malone who wants to censor the likes of Gemma O'Dortherty and the National Party, but a pound to a penny Mark Malone would also be in favour of censoring dissent from the official narratives on the Ukraine among other things that would effect the genuine Left. So between all this the Neo-Liberal centre has it's enemies on both the Right and the Left playing into it's increasingly authoritarian hands. The idea that the Russians who lost the Cold War primarily because they were crap at propaganda are some bunch of inscrutable as they are sinister Asiatic master minds of psychological manipulation weaving various spells to lead the good natured Occident into the abyss besides being the height of racism is silly- and yet many seemingly educated and intelligent people actually believe it.
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Up the meds ok? owedtojoy said: Just a week on from a mass shooting in Buffalo, NY, by a believer in the "Great Replacement Theory", an American right-wing conference is taking place in Budapest, Hungary (May 19th & 20th), perhaps a little more muted than it might be otherwise. CPAC is the American Conservative Political Action Committee, an American organisation of elite right-wing ideologues. Orbán and US right to bond at Cpac in Hungary over ‘great replacement’ ideology American far right has long embraced Hungary’s prime minister, who speaks of Europe’s ‘suicidal’ immigration policies www.
theguardian.com The Great Replacement Theory is a pod people theory (see the film Invasion of the Body Snatchers) that white voters are to be replaced by super-breeding immigrants, with the process engineered by a sinister elite (often Jews) to subvert the dominance of the Christian white race. There is a bit more going on here of course.
Orban's "illiberal democracy" is seen by many right-wing ideologues of the US right as a suitable model for a new right-wing dominated undemocratic USA, with Washington as a Vienna Budapest-on-the-Potomac - state dominated media (or owned by state-friendly oligarchs), strict immigration laws, rigid state-controlled justice system, unitary leadership by a "strongman" and his loyal lieutenants, restrictive laws against the LGBTQ community and women's rights to choice in reproduction. (Many would reply that the record of "small central European countries" in providing positive world leadership is not good.) What CPAC's embrace of Viktor Orban says about the state of U.
S. politics In an archive edition of On Point: As American conservatives meet for their conference in Budapest, we'll learn more about why they're gathering to hear Viktor Orban. www.
wbur.org Orban does come with baggage. It would be accurate to desribe him as a bargain-basement Vladimir Putin, with no nukes.
While Hungary is in NATO, and the EU, Orban comes across as a recalcitrant member of both, unashamedly reaching out to both Putin and Xi Jinping, when it suits his agenda. He has publicly sparred with Volodymyr Zelensky over Ukraine's Hungarian minority, a residue of the pre-1914 Austro-Hungarian Empire. But of course, the American right also contains a strong pro-Putin faction, that is gaining more attention.
And one of its leaders is also a loud proponent of Great Replacement Theory, who will also be in Vienna. Tucker Carlson, Fierce NATO Critic, To Speak at 'CPAC Hungary' With Orbán As the war rages on in Ukraine and Finland and Sweden elect to join NATO, CPAC is to be held in Europe for the first time. www.
newsweek.com Click to expand..
. Not as far fetched as one would think..
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https://www.telegraph.co.
uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett. He said Labour's relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to "open up the UK to mass migration" but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its "core working class vote".
As a result, the public argument for immigration concentrated instead on the economic benefits and need for more migrants. Critics said the revelations showed a "conspiracy" within Government to impose mass immigration for "cynical" political reasons. Mr Neather was a speech writer who worked in Downing Street for Tony Blair and in the Home Office for Jack Straw and David Blunkett, in the early 2000s.
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farnaby said: The last few paragraphs of the Guardian article are very telling: The Trumpian wing of the Republican party and the American far right in general have been so successful at undermining all trust in domestic and international US-built institutions - federal govt, the electoral system, Supreme court, UN, NATO - that the statement in bold is met by a shrug rather than the "what the hell is going on" outrage it would have sparked pre-2000. Click to expand..
. The whole point of the Constitution was to limit the power of the federal government. To claim it was "unthinkable" before 2000 shows a basic lack of understanding of American history and politics.
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