4 hours Ago By recedite
The Director of Public Prosecutions told Dublin District Court today that a garda involved in the pursuit of the three males, who were members of a Tallaght-based criminal gang that specialised in burglaries, is to be charged with a driving offence Click to expand...
Garda to face criminal prosecution over crash that killed three criminals fleeing patrol car Dean Maguire (29), Karl Freeman (26) and Graham Taylor (31) were killed in a head-on crash with a truck in July 2021. www.thejournal.
ie This is an unusual situation. I guess we'll just have to wait for some more details to emerge. recedite said: Garda to face criminal prosecution over crash that killed three criminals fleeing patrol car Dean Maguire (29), Karl Freeman (26) and Graham Taylor (31) were killed in a head-on crash with a truck in July 2021.
www.thejournal.ie This is an unusual situation.
I guess we'll just have to wait for some more details to emerge. Click to expand..
. AGS will not like this 1 bit! Unless GSOC ae saying that a Garda cannot pursue criminals in case they hurt themselves..
.. recedite said: Garda to face criminal prosecution over crash that killed three criminals fleeing patrol car Dean Maguire (29), Karl Freeman (26) and Graham Taylor (31) were killed in a head-on crash with a truck in July 2021.
www.thejournal.ie This is an unusual situation.
I guess we'll just have to wait for some more details to emerge. Click to expand..
. There is a lot of policy around the matter in the US, where it is covered by the 4th amendment. A pursuit can, of course, be fatal to those being pursued (in which case, tough titty), but also to bystanders, so restraint and control are part of the training.
That might include abandonment of the pursuit. I'd guess that the pursuit of someone going the wrong way down a dual carriageway might be considered reckless, no matter the intentions. The cops are tasked with keeping the public safe; in the heat of the moment the line where risk is crossed might be difficult to discern.
I'm speaking purely in speculation; hopefully the facts will emerge. Catapulta said: AGS will not like this 1 bit! Unless GSOC ae saying that a Garda cannot pursue criminals in case they hurt themselves..
.. Click to expand.
.. To engage in a pursuit you have to pass the Garda course on it - even to turn on the blues and two's.
I'm guessing this is a factor. Catapulta said: AGS will not like this 1 bit! Unless GSOC ae saying that a Garda cannot pursue criminals in case they hurt themselves..
.. Click to expand.
.. The gardai are expected to be mindful of their own safety and that of others.
It was laid out a few years ago in a document related to "managed containment policy". "Members of An Garda Síochána will only resort to the use of such containment tactics if there is no realistic prospect of achieving the lawful objective without exposing members of An Garda Síochána, or anyone whom it is their duty to protect, to a real risk of harm or injury," a portion of the document that was made public reads. Click to expand.
.. There are three levels of driving proficiency in the Gardai; only those at the top tier would be expected to have followed this gang - if they judged that they should.
It's frustrating for them, because it looks like they are not doing their job, and also because the gangs know the limits of the policy and they use them, but the whole thing is a risk assessment. CatullusV said: There are three levels of driving proficiency in the Gardai; only those at the top tier would be expected to have followed this gang - if they judged that they should. It's frustrating for them, because it looks like they are not doing their job, and also because the gangs know the limits of the policy and they use them, but the whole thing is a risk assessment.
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Yes. It's the same in the UK. But I'm astonished at the cheek of the men's families who seem to be positioning themselves so as to get compensation.
Families of burglars who died in N7 crash blaze voice concerns over GSOC probe The three victims who were members of a Tallaght-based burglary gang – Dean Maguire, 29, Karl Freeman, 26, and Graham Taylor, 31, – were killed instantly when their BMW vehicle burst into flames following a head-on crash www.irishmirror.ie Daft, There are rules of engagement, if the DPP feels those have been recklessly breached then sure, why not prosecute? recedite said: Garda to face criminal prosecution over crash that killed three criminals fleeing patrol car Dean Maguire (29), Karl Freeman (26) and Graham Taylor (31) were killed in a head-on crash with a truck in July 2021.
www.thejournal.ie This is an unusual situation.
I guess we'll just have to wait for some more details to emerge. Click to expand..
. Next they'll be putting on claims for compo. CatullusV said: I'd guess that the pursuit of someone going the wrong way down a dual carriageway might be considered reckless Click to expand.
.. Yes send a message out to all the criminals "if you want to escape from the Garda drive the wrong way down the road" .
Great stuff. Old Mr Grouser said: Yes. It's the same in the UK.
But I'm astonished at the cheek of the men's families who seem to be positioning themselves so as to get compensation. Families of burglars who died in N7 crash blaze voice concerns over GSOC probe The three victims who were members of a Tallaght-based burglary gang – Dean Maguire, 29, Karl Freeman, 26, and Graham Taylor, 31, – were killed instantly when their BMW vehicle burst into flames following a head-on crash www.irishmirror.
ie Click to expand...
why are you astonished? Are you really that naive? If there was any real justice in the world the families of those three criminals should be paying compensation to society for raising them to be evil. galteeman said: Yes send a message out to all the criminals "if you want to escape from the Garda drive the wrong way down the road" . Great stuff.
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Yup. That's exactly what you do. You send that message out to them, and they know now that one way of escape is to drive the wrong way down a dual carriage-way and hope that it is not a tier three driver behind you.
I'm not being sarcastic here. I agree with you. I'd guess, also, that that is the precise reason that the gang tried this route of escape.
But if they're being chased, they're going to increase their speed, and to an extent whereby if they crash into oncoming traffic, and the cops do too, then additional innocent victims - including the cops - may die. There has to come a time and place where backing off is the thing to do. It's the pragmatic thing to do.
Sync said: There are rules of engagement, if the DPP feels those have been recklessly breached then sure, why not prosecute? Click to expand...
According to reports at the time, the Garda ended the pursuit when the car began driving on the wrong side of the N7. galteeman said: Next they'll be putting on claims for compo. Click to expand.
.. Against whom? The driver of the car in which they were killed? Fine.
Let them do that. I was in the position back in '84 where my car was stolen. It was an odd car - a Hill Imp Californian.
It was a limited edition prouced to allow it be entered into some class of rallying. Myself and the ex brother-in-law spent many hours bringing it back to life - my main job being the bodywork. It was an ugly thing in its way, but I'd park it up and find bits of paper under the wipers offering to buy it when I came back.
This was at the height of joy-riding (is it still as big a thing now?), and one night it was stolen. The boys took it out onto the Naas Road and gunned it. The timing chain snapped, and the wheels locked.
All I can say is that that car always pulled a bit to the left and trees don't jump out of the way when they see an out of control car careering towards them. That pull to the left was something we were working on. As it was, those in the back had all the protection of a seat back with a now partially dismounted engine behind them; those in front had not much more than a grille and a petrol tank to protect them.
Multiple severe injuries ensued. I think every limb in the car was broken, and there was a bit of a fire, but they survived somehow. I paid a visit to them in hospital; it was the least I could do.
A letter duly arrived; a settlement figure was being suggested. The family lawyer laughed it off; it was very pro forma and their lawyer was clearly just going through the motions on behalf of his clients. Ours responded in kind, and the matter died a death.
Roman Emperor said: According to reports at the time, the Garda ended the pursuit when the car began driving on the wrong side of the N7. Click to expand..
. Very likely if they weren't a driver in the third tier. Old Mr Grouser said: Yes.
It's the same in the UK. But I'm astonished at the cheek of the men's families who seem to be positioning themselves so as to get compensation. Families of burglars who died in N7 crash blaze voice concerns over GSOC probe The three victims who were members of a Tallaght-based burglary gang – Dean Maguire, 29, Karl Freeman, 26, and Graham Taylor, 31, – were killed instantly when their BMW vehicle burst into flames following a head-on crash www.
irishmirror.ie Click to expand..
. Given the carry on of the families at the subsequent funerals a claim for compo is to be expected. Uganda said: Given the carry on of the families at the subsequent funerals a claim for compo is to be expected.
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Against whom? Cops can't pursue scumbags if it means something utterly reckless will happen. Also, these 3 were utter scumbags, but that needs to be parked in the consideration of this charge. Would hazard to guess that better resources (cars and more gardai), they possibly could have been contained earlier.
By the same note, the number of qualified pursuit drivers is often very limited, and the Gardai used to have prohibitive restrictions on what sort of garda could drive what sour of vehicle. Years back, a garda I knew used to say the 2.0L cars needed proper qualifications to drive.
Would hope that has been revised. As pretty much any car can outrun a 1.7L Hyundai i40 estate.
. CatullusV said: Against whom? The driver of the car in which they were killed? Fine. Let them do that.
I was in the position back in '84 where my car was stolen. It was an odd car - a Hill Imp Calafornian. It was a limited edition prouced to allow it be entered into some class of rallying.
Myself and the ex brother-in-law spent many hours bringing it back to life - my main job being the bodywork. It was an ugly thing in its way, but I'd park it up and find bits of paper under the wipers offering to buy it when I came back. This was at the height of joy-riding (is it still as big a thing now?), and one night it was stolen.
The boys took it out onto the Naas Road and gunned it. The timing chain snapped, and the wheels locked. All I can say is that that car always pulled a bit to the left and trees don't jump out of the way when they see an out of control car careering towards them.
That pull to the left was something we were working on. As it was, those in the back had all the protection of a seat back with a now partially dismounted engine behind them; those in front had not much more than a grille and a petrol tank to protect them. Multiple severe injuries ensued.
I think every limb in the car was broken, and there was a bit of a fire, but they survived somehow. I paid a visit to them in hospital; it was the least I could do. A letter duly arrived; a settlement figure was being suggested.
The family lawyer laughed it off; it was very pro forma and their lawyer was clearly just going through the motions on behalf of his clients. Ours responded in kind, and the matter died a death. Click to expand.
.. Hang on, were you somehow being considered liable for their injuries sustained in your stolen car.
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? Gin Soaked said: Hang on, were you somehow being considered liable for their injuries sustained in your stolen car...
.? Click to expand..
. They were of the opinion that it was a sports car (975cc!!) in unroadworthy condition. They were just fishing.
Tha Gardai were funny and I enjoyed dealing with them. They asked whether I wanted to press charges (automatic in this situation, I would have thought, and out of my hands), but I felt that their implication was that they had seen sufficient punishment. I've been asked the same question twice in my life; this was the first.
I said, that while I understood that their injuries were lifelong, my only concern was whether they would have something on their record at least. I was told that there were no worries on that score. I decided to leave matters where they stood.
As one cop said, they'd have difficulties getting them to put their hand on a bible in court without turning them upside-down..
